The Daily Vroom
Good morning Vroomers,
One of my favourite things about running The Daily Vroom isn't actually writing it. It's what happens after I hit send.
I love putting polls into the newsletter because they're a great way of taking the temperature of what everyone's thinking. But if I'm honest, I enjoy the emails that follow even more. Every time I ask a question, my inbox fills up with different viewpoints, ideas, stories about businesses people are building, tools they're using, and sometimes completely different ways of looking at the same problem. I genuinely enjoy going back and forth with people because those conversations often spark ideas that I'd never have thought of on my own.
Yesterday's valuation poll was a great example.
The first thing that jumped out at me was that almost half of you voted for "a mix of the above," while only a relatively small number simply wanted a valuation. That was actually reassuring because, as I said yesterday, I've never really felt that building another valuation tool is where The Daily Vroom can bring the most value.
If I'm going to spend months building something, I want it to solve a real problem, not become the tenth version of something that already exists.
Some of the comments really summed it up. One reader said he'd tried three different valuation sites and got three completely different answers. A professional vehicle appraiser explained that software can get you into the right ballpark, but properly valuing a car still comes down to experience and, more often than not, seeing the vehicle in person. Others said they already have enough places to get a valuation, but what they really value is independent advice or better context around the market.
That doesn't mean valuations aren't useful. I think they absolutely have their place. I just don't think that's where TDV can make the biggest difference.
The shipping calculators came from solving a problem. The Jobs Board came from solving a problem. Later this month we'll be launching another tool that we've been quietly working on for a long time, and again it's been built around trying to solve a problem that I don't think has been tackled particularly well.
So thank you. Every poll, every email and every comment helps shape what we build next. Keep the ideas coming, keep challenging me and, if you've got something you think would genuinely make The Daily Vroom better, my inbox is always open.
Anyway, here's what you said…
I can only give my experience. My car described exactly the same to get idea of value and possibly sell. Three different sites. You guess it. Three different prices. One Of the Sites Was Way Off. I might as well gift wrapped it and given it away. Difficult to trust any of todays evaluators. Flip a coin and hope for the best.
Appraisers usually provide a range for a car's value. Other sites offer a range based on a subjective grade of 1-5. I think a tool offering a qualified range would be helpful.
Honestly, we've seen time and again there are plenty of outliers that skew the numbers so results/pricing guides aren't super helpful. It's time someone just became an authoritative voice on the subject who doesn't own an auction platform (i.e., I don't want to take advice from Doug Demuro who also doesn't know much about cars made before 1990) and who can provide candid advice about the price you can get when selling outside of BaT (I.e., if I sell this car on Rennlist tomorrow, what should I ask?)
With respect to valuations I feel you are right. The day of the week, month of the year, economic conditions and the luck of whether the right buyers are active at the time all factor in along with all the factors you have mentioned, (responsive seller, vehicle prep, pictures, platform etc). There is always an X factor, the unknown and sometimes a rogue elephant who will do anything to get to the banana on the top of the tree. Keep up the great work!
Between Classic.com and Hagerty, I think the space is saturated enough to come to the conclusion I am looking for. Beyond them I look for context behind the results.
I agree with your thought that a simple aggregation of auction results showing either the median price or a range isn’t all that useful for showing anything other than the pricing trend over a period of time. But a detailed list of cars along with an analysis of what platform it sold on, who sold it, color, mileage, and all the other important details would be useful. We already do that (admittedly only using BaT, C&B and occasionally PCM) when helping clients set their expectations. But we do it manually; having a tool would be better ;-)
We don't need another valuation tool. Classic.com, hagerty and BaT have their own valuations (based on actual sales) which are helpful. I personally would never check TDV for a value. Advice (independent) would be good though on what sites to market a particular brand/model.
Actual results are what I have always used in determining a cars value "range". My value range considers many of the variables you list in the article, variables that I research and sense myself. Finally, if I am buying for myself to "keep" or "to resell".... the values will be much different.
I'm a professional vehicle appraiser as my full-time gig, so I appreciate your position that an AI tool can't really generate a specific valuation number. They seem pretty capable at developing a ballpark range, but those ranges can be a pretty big spread on high-dollar cars (tends of thou$ands).
The major variable, aside from the ones you mentioned, is condition. No two cars have the same condition, unless they're new cars in delivery mileage. And even then - wear varies.
AI seems pretty terrible at handling or understanding outlier results, which can vastly skew a software valuation. There are myriad reasons beyond selling to secure a valuation, and the intended purpose also changes the math.
To your question on whether it's even possible to say with specificity what a car is worth: Our industry says emphatically yes, but it requires research, expertise and perhaps most importantly: an in-person evaluation.”
Maybe it’s not a valuation tool per se, but a guidance or optimization tool. Plug in a year, make and model, and the tool spits out just a raw market average and then perhaps guides you to prominent online sellers, top online representatives, valuation experts for that very special or rare car, etc.. it’s a toll that helps you GET the most, not just dream about the most you can get.
YESTERDAY’S TOP 3 SALES
Want to dive deeper into any of these listings? Just click on the car to take you directly to the listing.
2021 Ferrari 812 GTS $904,000 (1,500 miles)
2019 Porsche 911 Speedster $495,000 (298 miles)
2015 Ferrari 458 Italia $470,000 (1,200 miles)
💡 TDV Tip
If one of today's cars has caught your eye, don't just look at the hammer price.
Importing? Check here the true landed cost.
Buying within the U.S.? Get a free shipping quote (with our tool) in under a minute. No email. No phone number. No sales calls.
One Collection I Look Forward To Every Year
There are collections happening all year round. Some are brilliant. Some are simply a group of cars being sold at the same time with a nice logo attached to them.
Then there's the Mohr Imports Monterey Car Week Collection on Bring a Trailer, which has become one of the collections I genuinely look forward to every year.
What I like isn't just the cars, although this year's lineup is certainly strong. Twenty-two cars ranging from a pair of modern Ford GTs and a Ferrari 430 Scuderia Spider 16M to a BMW Z8, Porsche 911 Turbo, Lotus Esprit Sport 300, Acura NSX, Porsche 356s and plenty more is enough to keep most enthusiasts busy for quite a while.
What keeps bringing me back is the effort that goes into presenting it.
Last year I remember talking about the postcards and the marketing around the collection because it felt like they'd gone that little bit further than simply uploading a few listings. This year they've done it again.
Instead of just producing another catalogue, they've created a fully interactive digital magazine which you can see here. Click on a car and you're taken to the auction. Click somewhere else and you're watching a video. There are links to articles, company information, YouTube videos and even an Insider's Guide to Monterey Car Week. I love that sort of thing because it encourages you to spend time exploring rather than simply scrolling through listings. It's one of those small touches that makes the whole collection feel much more immersive.
As for the cars, everyone will have their own favourite. Mine changes every few minutes. One minute I'm looking at the Ford GTs, then I'm distracted by the Ferrari 16M, before ending up down a rabbit hole reading about the Lotus Esprit Sport 300 or the BMW 1600 GT. That's exactly how a good collection should work. You arrive for one car and leave having discovered three others you'd completely forgotten existed.
If you've got a spare twenty minutes today, I'd recommend having a browse through the interactive guide as much as the auctions themselves. Whether you're heading to Monterey or watching from the other side of the world like I am, it's one of the better pieces of marketing I've seen around a collection this year.
And that's probably the biggest compliment I can give it. It doesn't just make me want to bid... it makes me want to keep clicking.